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Cathy Newman interviews Jordan Peterson on Channel 4 News video, science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM) workforce, Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC). I would expand on this by taking away anything that could identify age, sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation (why one would include some categories in a CV , who knows). The wage gap perception is a manifestation of hard-wired male/female differences and society would suffer in the long run if we mind-control people into believing those differences dont exist. Your involuntary unconscious perceptions have to be retrained., Again, he is careful to ground his scathing criticism in some kind of evidence:People are categorised by novelty aversion. They want your perceptions to fall into accordance with their demands. Caryn E. Peterson, Abigail Silva, Abigail H. Goben, Natalia P. Ongtengco, . Dr Peterson empathises hierarchies of competence over hierarchies of power. The only facts in this article are contained in the quotes attributed to Dr. Peterson. Again, there is an element of truth here. powerful statistics can identify patterns. Ive worked as a software programmer for the last 10 years. Those differences are a good thing. Policies that maximize equality of opportunity make equality of outcome increasingly impossible. Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. This is a big problem particularly if the goal of such egalitarian policies was to minimize the differences between men and women. But these fans had nevertheless extracted from his work a view of the world that seemed to justify their behaviour. But facts is facts, Im afraid, and no amount of neo-Marxist leftist postmodern suggestion that social science is a patriarchal construction is going to make the ugly truth disappear: Men and women are similar. Men also choose to have children but the impact on their careers is virtually non-existent. The conservative commentator has changed his tone recently about the de-criminilzation of Marijuana. Now it may seem small but the main thrust of Jordans argument is that part of what can explain the pay gap is that women are just high enough on agreeableness so that makes them less likely to negotiate agressively for higher pay. The facts can be denied, but only at the cost of throwing out social science in its entirety (given that the entire field is predicated on the same methods used in the studies currently being discussed) and a good bit of biology as well. That statistic is from the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (WGEA), who are tasked with promoting and improving gender equality in Australian workplaces. Im concerned in Australia about the unconcious bias of having HR departments almost exclusively occupied by women. We all understand fairness, or think we do, but very few of us understand equality. Thank you I am female and this is exactly my view. Perhaps its a consequence of their sexual vulnerability. Are you afraid your arguments wont hold up in a dialectical discussion? The reason for the dual visits? Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. And these differences drive occupational choice, particularly at the extremes. It might also be pointed out that such a move is particularly appalling, given its source. In it heargues that the gender pay gap is largely a natural reflection of differences between men and women, differences explained in the Big Five personality traits: openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism. In it, the producers spin a tale to suggest that discrimination, or as they put it, the "battle of the sexes," is the reason why women make less money than men throughout the course of their lives. But Briner feels there is a danger the Canadians persuasive style and selective use of science could lead to a halo effect where people accept what he says without looking at the evidence. He fears his views could appeal to those who feel some resentment and who dont like to see other people gaining more power. Careers, say, in law or in medicine or in business or in politics, don't allow a person to work 9 a.m.-5 p.m. or less, and that's what most American mothers (a full 67 percent) want. Essentially he is saying that if you took the average amount made by men and compared it to women, there would be a difference. This allowed for many socioligical variables to be kept consistent. I disagree on his stance regarding gender equality, gender pay gap, toxic masculinity and femininity, the way he talks about the weakness of men, his views on victimhood, his views on rape, his opposition to Bill C . The real pay gap is between mothers and fathers, not between women and men. The best explanation, so far, for the fact of the growing differences is that there are two reasons for the differences between men and women: biology and culture. Its very important to remember that many choices are made at the extreme, and not the average. The other six trips were part of my 12 Rules for Life tour, which has now covered 100 cities. But the show would have none of it. Peterson may have reservations about one method the IAT but that doesnt mean bias doesnt exist. Just one year after completing their education, female graduates can expect to earn 1,600 less than their male peers, according to the Department for Education. See https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-We-Really-Measure-Implicit/238807 He would suggest that the IAT, the election of Trump, and the not only the differences in employment choices in Scandinavia, but also the relatively small number of women looking to take leadership positions in politics in those countries, are the result of what happens when the playing field is leveled through societal constructs. University of Toronto psychology professor Jordan Peterson had enough of what he saw as a campus culture where "social justice warrior, left-wing radical political activists" ran rampant. The doctrine, ever more radically and loudly insisted upon by the politically correct, that sex differences are only socially constructed is wrong. PART 1: SCANDINAVIA. We should agree with him women and men are different but so are men and men and so are women and so are chimps and chimps Gender pay gap remains largely unchanged, study finds. But the theory that women have less aptitude for science subjects has been repeatedly debunked. And, sometimes, in order to achieve equality, its necessary to be unfair thats because much inequality derives from past unfairness.. Why is this even a controversy? She writes that the distinction between fairness and equality was not explored satisfactorily in the exchange. The interviewer seemed eager to impute to Peterson a belief that a large, extant wage gap between men and women is a "fact of life" that women should just "put up with," though all those. Photograph: Channel 4. That is not what the 80% figure shows. To begin with, the statistic alone is misleading. In objection to Zunger, engineering isnt all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. The result being that differences are exacerbated. He adds that the abilities and choices of men and women differed in part because of biology and this was why we dont see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. The gender pay gap does not exist because men and women are paid less for the same jobs, it exists because men and women tend to do slightly different jobs. It literally appears in undergrad psych textbooks and units. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Channel 4 News 2.48M subscribers Subscribe 43M views 5 years ago Channel 4 News' full, fiery interview with. In an interview with Channel 4's Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said these. "If you're a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. It was never my intention to make the professor out to be a monster; in fact I go out of my way to state that the HR sector needs to hear his arguments and that he is not a politically motivated monster. Get it? Lets even assume (which I dont) that much of this is accrued unfairly by straight white men, as the identity politics players, such as our Prime Minister, self-righteously and vociferously insist. Ah, but when women outnumber men, by far (and its the same here in the UK, with respect to the public sector), thats okay because its VERY diverse. It is very much *not* about people. Western Culture is wasting a fortune to prove these PC ideas are as insane and unnecessary as they sound and meanwhile falling behind on the actual focus of the business at hand. Where is the high profile CIPD campaign to encourage more men into HR ? Weve pulled together some of the most common myths to help you navigate the pay gap deniers. Finding the causes of male dominance is more complex but a lack of female role models and stereotypes about masculine and feminine jobs are two well-evidenced theories. Forum for Expatriate Management Even if the IAT and the resume studies are valid, Im allowed to have my own thoughts. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering. She is an author, Fox News contributor, and trustee of Leading Women for Shared Parenting. There are other sex differences, as well, but they arent as large, excepting that of the aforementioned interest: men are comparatively more interested in things and women in people. We worked through the practical things that could be done differently to ensure they recruited the best. As an example he uses his work with law firms in Canada where many of the best performers are women yet the firms are unable to make many of them partners because they so often leave in pursuit of a better work-life balance. What about men who want a better work/life balance, of whom there are millions? Thus, selection for competence should optimally be sex-blind, if competence is the most important factor. "Women are more interested in people, while men are more interested in things. Describe people every which way imaginable, and then use large samples and powerful statistics to sort out the resulting mess. Where is the diversity in the public services. About the only way you could get me in to a Jordan Peterson talk would be to kidnap me and tie me to a chair in the audience. They only respond in vague generalities. Here's another, showing that at least some of the much-vaunted gender gap in pay, which is caused by many factors, . See below for a distribution chart. Practitioners, he adds, need to be aware of the risk that CEOs will tune into the Canadians ideas and want to know why HR is wasting all this money. As might be expected, Peterson is not a fan of the growing desire to test and train in the area of unconscious bias. Well, the traits mentioned here certainly have relevance to the success of a TEAM, but its hard to see how they specifically have to do with the discipline of engineering. Two arguments that Jordan puts on the table to explain the gender pay gap are as follows: Women are more attracted to jobs that generally pay less than jobs that attract men (teachers vs engineers). Request PDF | Putting Nondiscrimination into Practice: Realizing the Promise of Gender Equality Laws | Well into the twenty-first century, achieving gender equality in the economy remains . The COVID-19 pandemic resulted in an influx of misinformation surrounding the virus and its origins. A whole bunch of equity industry participants complain that hes too persuasive, throw out stuff like unfairness if ok if it leads to the outcomes we want, and tell companies they need to double-down on their efforts to beat Social Equity opinions into their confused staff. At other times youll work on a project alone and then discuss what youve designed with colleagues. })(); at the site of my interview with James Damore, Something approaching a consensus among psychologists expert in measurement, produce comparatively fewer women in the STEM fields, can be attributed to male/female personality differences. Peterson did not say that "the market is 80% controlled by women." It is the existence of children, not sexism, that creates the gender pay gap. Jordan Peterson debates the gender pay gap with BBC Channel 4 News' Cathy Newman. Ben Shapiro On Israel PalestineThough theres a long history here, its Ben Shapiro On Socialism Even more than his views on abortion, Ben Shapiro is Scholar Fact Check Help Fix Fake News. https://goo.gl/D7m2a6 This seems to be a direct challenge to the idea that increasing diversity enlarges the pool of available talent, and so has a positive effect on the bottom line as well as being fairer. Watch "Prime Time with Alex Stein" LIVE Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays at 6pm CT/7pm ET: @PrimeTimeAlexStein Channel 4 News' full, fiery interview with clinical psychologist and professorJordan B Peterson, whose views on gender have amassed great controversy - and a huge online following. She says: I am disturbed by the tenor of some of the debates. . https://goo.gl/3t4SHw In any case, I believe very strongly that Damore is being scapegoated for expressing his opinions that how HR wants engineers to staff their teams is in-congruent with the job as he understands it. Heres a full list of the cabinet members, in case you want to contact them and let them know what you think. And for both the leftists and the 3rd + 4th wave feminists the agenda is to thwart competence from the top of the list of value prioritization so that any of their irrelevant, whimsical and destructive vices can sneak in and contend that position as undetected as possible. I was wondering what everyone thought about this recent debate Jordan Peterson had on the television show - "Channel 4 News" Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&t=70s 4 63 63 comments Best Add a Comment But no matter what time I arrive or what time I leave, John is always there. In a blog post for the Adam Smith Institute, Ben Southwood writes: Women leave the labour market during crucial years, setting them substantially back in labour market terms. Saw half my companys HR staff sacked after a consultancy reviewed their policies and procedures. I have seen social scientists struggle to offer a cultural explanation, but I havent heard any such hypothesis that is the least bit credible, and have been unable to formulate one myself. Jordan Peterson has HR in his crosshairs with his strident criticism of efforts to close the gender pay gap and to tackle unconscious bias. So they actually help his case. Even when men and women are most different in those cultures where they differ most, and along those trait dimensions where they differ most they are more similar than different. This would seem to refute his line that the multi-variate analyses have been clear in showing that the gender pay gap does not exist. He has spoken against misleading claims about systemic inequality such as the "gender pay gap," opposed subjecting minors to transgender surgeries or drugs, and warned against defining persons primarily by group identity rather than by individual traits. This article was amended on 5 April 2019. The possibility of identifying a competent person increases as the pool of available candidates increases. } See below for a distribution chart comparing agreeableness scores of men compared to women. Kandola says that Peterson has misrepresented IAT, which has proved useful, particularly in racial stereotyping. According to Rob Briner, professor of organisational psychology at Queen Mary University of London, Peterson makes several points that HR leaders should heed. Since when did my employment come not just with a paycheck but thought policing? These are not small-scale studies (heres another, equally recent). Adam McCulloch is a freelance writer and production editor who has worked in sectors including travel (The Guardian), aviation (Flight International), agriculture (Farmers' Weekly), music (Jazzwise), theatre (The Stage) and social work (Community Care). All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering.. There are going to be more male criminals, and more male engineers, and more females with diagnoses of depression and anxiety, and more female nurses. A couple of them, which well discuss, may well seem to be contradictory while others, have some degree of speculation and opinion that are ferociously debated within the confines of academia. ); The method? Engineering is not all about empathy, cooperation, etc. Some projects will be collaborative. This statement was unchallenged, why was Sheila Wild not asked to expand on why being unfair is necessary. Jordan Peterson Refuses Justin Trudeau S Covid Booster Plea You D Have To Kill Me First The "jordan peterson's latest move involving justin trudeau surprised everyone! Social work and nursing are all about those. In the paper, the researchers found that the best orchestras are those that are conducted with blind auditions. Closing the pay gap "isn't a threat to men," said Thorsteinn Viglundsson, Icelands former Minister of Social Affairs and Equality. Many people have criticized VICE for only releasing a 20-minute video when the actual interview was two hours long. CONTROVERSIAL clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson claimed the gender pay gap is "unsolvable" and "deadly" in a 60 Minutes interview. Answer (1 of 17): The main point Jordan is making I think is that the "gap" being reported is a result of statistical analysis that consists of many factors, and is not based on empirical evidence of a single dimension of gender bias. (function() { The gender pay gap is about comparing the wages of full-time working men and full-time working women, and working out why women earn on average $239.80 less per week than men. I found a contradiction in this article when it was stated in order to achieve equality, its necessary to be unfair. They were the ones sent packing. People who describe themselves as kind tend not to consider themselves competitive, for example, but are likely to accept cooperative and caring. Likewise, creative types might regard themselves as curious and inventive, while the diligent types are also dutiful and orderly. A trait-like phenomenon was also identified: that of interest interest in people vs. things. He discusses the pay gap, patriarchy and his new book " 12 Rules for Life ." Subscribe: http://bit.ly/2mFYm8e. Men and women are not the same. We all remember that our current Prime Minister, the Right Honorable Justin Trudeau, decided early on when he formed his government to make his cabinet 50% women, because it was 2015. And he got a hall pass for this, no doubt because of his boyish charm and modern mien. Peterson fully endorsed Damores views, interviewing him at length on his YouTube channel. Thats a consequence of the free choice of men and women in the societies that have gone farther than any other societies to make gender equality the purpose of the law. Emma Griffin, professor of modern British history at the University of East Anglia, wrote a compelling account of how work was gendered and how these gender distinctions came to be seen as natural. Give up! Writing in the Spectator, Kate Andrews, the associate director of the Institute of Economic Affairs, said women are bombarded with inflated statistics, cherry-picked and designed to make them feel helpless. The IAT in particular is just a bad place to start, and your article is a very good demonstration of that. With a vast online audience for his views, the sector needs to respond with hard facts and strong arguments, writes Adam McCulloch. But are Petersons criticisms really just skating across the surface, failing to take account of the true nature and potential of such work? Over the last few weeks, I have been in Oslo, twice; Helsinki, twice; Stockholm, twice; and Copenhagen, once. Wrong. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Hi Sean. Features list 2023, 2011 - 2023 DVV Media International Ltd, published a blogcritical of Newmans Peterson interview, interviewing him at length on his YouTube channel, accused the company of discriminating against white conservative men, Yonatan Zunger, who responded to Damores manifesto i, https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-We-Really-Measure-Implicit/238807, https://gynocentrism.com/2018/03/03/jordan-peterson-on-psychological-differences-similarities-between-the-sexes/, General Medical Council vows to tackle bias, STEM returners project receives government backing. Women who have decided for a better work/life balance should realise that the payoff is just that; a better work/life balance, which is more valuable that the small financial price that is paid. Form follows function, function rules. Its time for the adults in the room to wake up and take charge again. Why isnt this a focus of gender-inequality outrage? He's tough, calm, smart, and, most importantly, he's right. Peterson mentioned women choose lower paying careers, but gaps still exists within most industries, including 66% lower earnings for female financial specialists, and 71% smaller incomes for female doctors (when age, education, race and hours were controlled). Jordan Peterson has HR in his crosshairs with his strident criticism of efforts to close the gender pay gap and to tackle unconscious bias. How can we bridge the gender pay gap? The median gap is a blunt tool, but a powerful one. And while training can improve scores on the IAT, again the improved scores have shown zero correlation with behavior. If you want to see this in real time check out the comments to nearly everything the progressives of the worlds darling, @Justin Trudeau tweets, even on the very few occasions when he doesnt reference some variation on gender/identity/grievance politics. But cooperation is not the core of engineering. When you ask thousands of people hundreds of questions (or ask them to rate themselves using descriptive adjectives such as kind, competitive, happy, anxious, creative, diligent, etc.) Equality is a dishonest notion because those who use it do so to deliberately avoid distinguishing between equality of outcome (which is their real objective) and equality of opportunity, which is what normal, sensible reasonable people support. Perhaps (and this is the explanation I favor) its because women have always taken primary care of infants, who are exceptionally vulnerable, and must therefore suffer from hyper-vigilance to threat. However, thats not exactly what he said and, as he never tires of telling us, hes very (x3) careful with his words. OHW+ While most men do not enter these fields either, far more men than women do. Women have entered the workforce en masse, and are participating at levels approaching or exceeding equality in many of the domains that were male majority prior to the 1960s. When both full and part-time employees are included in the calculation, the gender pay gap widens after the age of 30. This paper examines the negative consequences of neoliberal self-care discourses related to COVID-19 that contributed to the disinfodemic, focusing on the wellness industry. However, for Briner, Peterson does score some hits in his criticism of equality and diversity in organisations: HR must ask itself whether it is confusing the business case with a moral case. To take up Petersons example, its true that engineering is dominated by men. Like many civil rights movements, it's had its beneficial effects. The Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson received considerable attention when he visited Stockholm recently. Dianah Worman, co-director of Inclusive Talent and an adviser to the CIPD, says: The concept of success is changing. callback: cb cooperation and collaboration are of course essential, but not so much once a jab has been parceled out to the various individual contributors. One of them is the difference in personality (agreeableness) and part of it is also prejudice. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Hey everyone!